03/04/2021 11:00 AM House FISHERIES

         HB  80-SPT FSH HATCHERY FACIL ACCT; SURCHARGE                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:09:51 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TARR  announced that the  first order of business  would be                                                               
HOUSE  BILL  NO.  80,  "An Act  establishing  the  sport  fishing                                                               
hatchery  facilities  account;  establishing  the  sport  fishing                                                               
facility surcharge; and providing for an effective date."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:10:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS referred  to  Section 2  regarding                                                               
fishing license reciprocity between  Yukon [Territory] and Alaska                                                               
allowing Yukon  residents to obtain  licensing at  resident rates                                                               
and suggested  that Yukon is getting  the better deal.   He asked                                                               
Commissioner Vincent-Lang  if he  had data reflecting  the impact                                                               
of  the discount  and how  many  Alaskans take  advantage of  the                                                               
reciprocal resident licensing discount.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:11:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DOUG VINCENT-LANG,  Commissioner, Alaska  Department of  Fish and                                                               
Game, answered  that he did  not have the requested  data readily                                                               
available.  He offered that the  topic had come up throughout the                                                               
years between  the premier of  Yukon and the governor  of Alaska.                                                               
He stated that  the matter had not been addressed  by the current                                                               
administration,  and  the  policy  exists  as  a  "good  neighbor                                                               
policy."   He offered  to provide the  requested data  and agreed                                                               
with  Representative  Kreiss-Tompkins  that  access  to  Alaska's                                                               
saltwater fisheries [by Yukoners]  was the more desirable benefit                                                               
of the policy.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS agreed  with  the  sentiment of  a                                                               
good neighbor  policy due  to the  geography of  Southeast Alaska                                                               
and residents'  access to  the rest  of the  state and  asked the                                                               
commissioner to provide foregone  revenues to understand the cost                                                               
benefits of the "good neighbor policy".                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:13:07 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE  recalled that the reciprocity  language had                                                               
not been included in a previous  version of the proposed bill and                                                               
questioned  the value  of including  such  reciprocity given  her                                                               
belief that Alaska  was not in a strong  position for negotiation                                                               
and that Alaska  was experiencing a lack of  reciprocity in other                                                               
areas affecting communities in Alaska.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  suggested  that  a  minor  change  in                                                               
language  had clarified  the intent  of the  bill to  ensure that                                                               
resident rate  licensing fees offered  to Yukoners  would include                                                               
the  surcharge, which  may  not  have been  clear  in a  previous                                                               
version of the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  VANCE  asked  if   there  exist  other  areas  of                                                               
negotiation,  including  treaties, that  pose  a  strong need  to                                                               
offer [Yukoners] a nonresident discount.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG offered  his understanding  that those                                                               
needs are a  policy decision between the governor  and Yukon, and                                                               
that he could speak only to the impacts of such decisions.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:15:23 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ORTIZ  asked  whether a  hypothetical  conceptual                                                               
amendment to  Section 1,  on page  1, line  9 changing  the words                                                               
"operation  of the  department's sport  fish hatchery  facilities                                                               
and sport fishing  stock", by replacing "fishing  stock" with the                                                               
word "fish" would change the intent of the bill.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   VINCENT-LANG  suggested   that  there   may  exist                                                               
confusion about what a sport  fish hatchery does.  He exemplified                                                               
that a  sportfish hatchery in  Fairbanks produces  fish primarily                                                               
for  lakes.   He  stated  that  the  Jack Hernandez  Hatchery  in                                                               
Southcentral  produces   fish  for   both  lakes   and  saltwater                                                               
releases.   He stated that  Douglas Island Pink and  Chum (DIPAC)                                                               
in  Southeast Alaska  produces both  fresh water  and salt  water                                                               
fish.   He  stated his  opinion that  including the  word "stock"                                                               
would not affect the intent  of the surcharge for the maintenance                                                               
and operations of hatcheries.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ORTIZ clarified his  question, which he was asking                                                               
on behalf  of a  constituent, whether  changing the  words "sport                                                               
fishing  stock enhancement"  to "sport  fish enhancement"  [would                                                               
change the intent of the bill].                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG stated that he  had no problem with the                                                               
suggested change to the language in the bill.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:18:10 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE referred to Section  2, which read: "If the                                                               
commissioner determines that residents  of the state are entitled                                                               
to  obtain licenses  for sport  fishing, including  sport fishing                                                               
for anadromous  king salmon, in  Yukon, Canada".  He  stated that                                                               
currently one  may not drive there;  therefore, the [reciprocated                                                               
licensing benefit to Alaskans] would be zero.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  stated   that  the  determination  is                                                               
vested   at  his   discretion;  however,   he  would   request  a                                                               
conversation  with   the  governor  regarding  policy   with  our                                                               
neighbors and that  decisions predicated on this  policy may have                                                               
broader implications on other policies.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE  asked whether the commissioner  would have                                                               
an estimate  between 500 to  10,000 Yukon  residents [benefitting                                                               
from the policy].                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:19:28 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  estimated the  number  to  be in  the                                                               
hundreds, not tens of thousands.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:19:54 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  TARR  noted   that  in  the  committee   packet  were  two                                                               
amendments.   The first was  Amendment 1,  labeled 32-GH1609\A.4,                                                               
Bullard, 2/24/21, which read as follows:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, lines 8 - 9:                                                                                                       
          Delete "to ongoing maintenance and operation of"                                                                      
          Insert "equally between"                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 10:                                                                                                           
          Delete "intended to directly benefit license                                                                          
     purchasers"                                                                                                                
          Insert "projects for ongoing maintenance and                                                                          
     operation and for the direct benefit of sport fishing                                                                      
     license holders"                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TARR noted that Amendment 1 had been submitted by                                                                         
Representative Ortiz.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:20:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ORTIZ stated his intention to revise the                                                                         
amendment after consultation with the department and offer it at                                                                
a later time.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:20:44 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TARR moved on to Amendment 2.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
11:20:54 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES moved to adopt Amendment 2, labeled 32-                                                                   
GH1609\A.5, Bullard, 3/3/21, which read as follows:                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 21:                                                                                                           
          Delete "4"                                                                                                            
          Insert "6.50"                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 22:                                                                                                           
          Delete "4"                                                                                                            
          Insert "6.50"                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 23:                                                                                                           
          Delete "4"                                                                                                            
          Insert "6.50"                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 24:                                                                                                           
          Delete "25"                                                                                                           
          Insert "27.50"                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 25:                                                                                                           
          Delete "20"                                                                                                           
          Insert "22.50"'                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 26:                                                                                                           
          Delete "10"                                                                                                           
          Insert "12.50"                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 27:                                                                                                           
          Delete "5"                                                                                                            
          Insert "7.50"                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 28:                                                                                                           
          Delete "40"                                                                                                           
          Insert "42.50"                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 29 - 30:                                                                                                     
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following paragraph accordingly.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 31:                                                                                                           
          Delete "4"                                                                                                            
          Insert "6.50"                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TARR objected for the purposes of discussion.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES offered a summary description of the                                                                      
proposed amendment as follows:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Amendment  2 meets  the department's  proposal halfway.                                                                    
     Instead of  reinstating the surcharge with  a reduction                                                                    
     of $ 5.00, this amendment  proposes a reduction of only                                                                    
     $ 2.50.  This amount  is what the committee passed last                                                                    
     year, and it remained in the  bill until it died in its                                                                    
     final  committee of  referral  in the  other  body.   I                                                                    
     believe this  amendment reflects a delicate  balance of                                                                    
     reducing the  surcharge, as the  bonding has  been paid                                                                    
     for  the   Ruth  Burnett  and  the   ...  William  Jack                                                                    
     Hernandez   hatcheries,  while   still  retaining   the                                                                    
     necessary  revenue  for   enhancement  projects.    The                                                                    
     addition of the  $ 2.50 back into this  bill will raise                                                                    
     over a  million dollars  in additional revenue  that is                                                                    
     badly  needed  to  support  the  activities  of  sports                                                                    
     anglers.    I  would  note that  the  deletion  of  the                                                                    
     special  nonresident  military  small  game  and  sport                                                                    
     fishing  license on  page 2,  lines  10 and  11 of  the                                                                    
     amendment is  a housekeeping measure at  the request of                                                                    
     the department.  They no  longer offer this license and                                                                    
     request  that it  be removed  from the  bill.   I would                                                                    
     also  remind members  ... and  the public  ... that  82                                                                    
     percent  of  the  surcharge  revenue  is  derived  from                                                                    
     nonresidents.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:22:32 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCCABE  stated  his   interest  in  Amendment  2,                                                               
provided  that Amendment  1 should  not pass.   He  asked whether                                                               
Amendment 1 would  be revised, stating his view  that amendment 1                                                               
would blatantly  push money  to a Southeast  hatchery when  it is                                                               
not  needed,  and   that  the  two  larger   hatcheries  are  the                                                               
facilities most in need due to the larger populations served.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:23:21 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 11:23 a.m. to 11:29 a.m.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:29:07 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TARR  called the meeting  back to order and  clarified that                                                               
the  committee was  still considering  Amendment  2, which  would                                                               
"split  the  difference"  in  the  proposed  restoration  of  the                                                               
surcharge.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:29:43 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ORTIZ stated  that 82 percent of  the revenues are                                                               
[derived] from  nonresident fees, and his  anecdotal interactions                                                               
with charter  operators and  lodges in  his region  revealed that                                                               
[nonresident anglers]  have no concern  whether the  surcharge is                                                               
$2.50 or $5.00,  and the guests of operators  have traveled great                                                               
distances to take advantage of  Alaska's resources.  He asked why                                                               
the  $5.00 should  not  be maintained  when  those affected  have                                                               
expressed no concern over the increase.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:30:52 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG stated that  he had participated in the                                                               
original plan  for the bond reimbursement  through the surcharge,                                                               
and it was his view that  there existed a commitment to eliminate                                                               
the surcharge  once the bonds had  been repaid.  He  stated that,                                                               
while he  is in  a different role  currently and  now responsible                                                               
for  the  maintenance  of  the   hatcheries,  he  maintained  his                                                               
commitment  to   the  agreement  that  the   surcharge  would  be                                                               
eliminated, or  that it  would not be  charged indefinitely.   He                                                               
suggested  his  agreement  with Representative  Ortiz'  statement                                                               
that nonresidents would likely not  take issue with the surcharge                                                               
and that  a balance  of those  priorities should  be sought.   He                                                               
referenced the ruling  in Carlson v. State in which  it was ruled                                                               
that  it  was  unconstitutional  to have  a  full  surcharge  for                                                               
nonresidents  and   a  partial  surcharge  for   residents.    He                                                               
expressed  his  appreciation  that   the  need  for  funding  the                                                               
programs  was one  recognized by  the maker  of the  amendment as                                                               
needing  support  and  cautioned  that  increasingly  restrictive                                                               
language  would  result  in  difficulties  in  meeting  needs  in                                                               
different areas  of the state.   He suggested that  the governor,                                                               
[as sponsor of the bill  through House Rules] should be consulted                                                               
to arrive at a compromised language to balance the needs.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:32:38 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ORTIZ allowed  that there  exist complexities  in                                                               
arriving at  the best language  for the  bill and he  stated that                                                               
the department  had experienced at  least a 32  percent reduction                                                               
in unrestricted general  funds (UGF); however, it  had been asked                                                               
to do  the same crucial mandate  of managing the resource  to the                                                               
maximum sustained  yield.  He  stated that the  funding reduction                                                               
was a hindrance to that mandate.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:34:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE asked why there  exists a difference in the                                                               
bill proposed  last year  which included a  list of  programs not                                                               
included in this version.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:34:40 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  stated  his understanding  that  this                                                               
version of  the bill  contained the same  programs as  last year,                                                               
and the  legislative process of  developing the language  had led                                                               
to what is currently before the committee.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:34:52 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES  suggested that  the list of  programs that                                                               
Representative McCabe  had referred to  had been left out  of the                                                               
version currently under consideration  to allow the department to                                                               
function with  fewer restrictions  and to allow  the commissioner                                                               
more discretion in the use of  limited funds.  She added that the                                                               
reduction from $5.00 to $2.50 was  a compromise to allow for some                                                               
funds to be collected, while  the reduction could be perceived as                                                               
an  act of  good faith  on the  part of  the commissioner  having                                                               
reduced the surcharge overall.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:35:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TARR  suggested that the  bill could be amended  further to                                                               
allow  for another  sunset on  the surcharge,  and that  could be                                                               
decided in the bill's next committee of referral.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:36:20 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  TARR  removed  her  objection   to  the  motion  to  adopt                                                               
Amendment 2.   There being no further objection,  Amendment 2 was                                                               
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:36:33 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR TARR announced that HB 80, as amended, was held over.